Exclusive | Radnor & Lee say how a new groove made them find a new expression for second album 'Golden State'
Hollywood actor Josh Radnor and Australian musician Ben Lee might seem like an unlikely pairing for a singer-songwriter duo at first glance. But once you listen to the songs they have made together as Radnor & Lee — stripped-down, mellow folk tunes drizzled with spiritual insights — you get the inkling that they were always meant to be together.
Besides his numerous acting and writing gigs, Radnor is probably best known for his TV roles on 'How I Met Your Mother' & 'Hunters', while Ben Lee shot to fame as a musician with the alt-pop band Noise Addict. So when Ben and Josh met on the set of 'How I Met Your Mother' over a decade ago (the show wanted to use one of Ben's songs originally), a long-standing friendship was kindled. They released their widely-acclaimed Radnor & Lee (self-titled) debut album in 2017, and after completing a life-changing tour of Brazil and Argentina, they wrapped up the finishing touches on their second album as a duo.
Their sophomore outing 'Golden State' will be out on June 19 via Flower Moon Records. The record was originally slated to be dropped in May, but coronavirus pandemic recently put a dent in those plans. In view of their upcoming release, which showcases a wiser and darker side of Radnor & Lee, MEA WorldWide (MEAWW) caught up with them for an exclusive interview — here's the first installment.
Your new album 'Golden State' had to be delayed to June due to the Covid-19 pandemic — did you have to make that tough call yourselves?
Ben: The label we're doing this with, Flower Moon, they're friends. It was really about picking a release date that wasn't going to get automatically overshadowed by world events. We're not delusional, we understand where we sit in relation to other things going on in the world. We just wanted to give the record a shot at being heard, and so, it was just very logical to hold on for a minute.
Josh: We make decisions when we're on the same page. There's no top-down order or anything like that in Flower Moon. It's really collaborative.
Compared to your first album, 'Golden State' seems to be a lot more mature — it's wiser and darker. What brought about this evolution in your songwriting?
Ben: I think our approach to making our art is that there should be a natural correlation with what's going on in our lives. So when you're talking about three years between records, yeah, there was a natural maturing. You get weathered by the world and I think we just wanted to reflect that in the music.
Josh: On the first record, I didn't play guitar, but on the second record I'm playing. Since I was holding down the rhythm more, Ben was able to expand his musical vocabulary on this one because he was just freer to find things... we were freer. We spent a month at my old house in a kind of creative retreat. We got together a lot and just discovered weird sounds, new rhythms. It was just a really free space to play and figure some stuff out, and some of our favorite songs emerged from that time. So I think adding me as a musician really helped us.
I think of things as a writer, so you could say the first album was an early draft of Radnor & Lee. And then in the next iteration of the draft, you realize what you can leave out, and what you can add in that will make it a more powerful experience. So, I just think the album is a leap forward, both musically and stylistically. The content feels more like a reflection of where we are in the world at this moment, and that's what you want stuff you make to feel like.
One of your new songs 'Outside In' has a timeless theme about shifting one's perspective to self-love. Considering we live in a social media age filled with scrutiny and judgment, what's the best way to help a kid who is worried about how they're being perceived?
Ben: We can't really pit generations or time periods against each other, because it's a timeless question — how do we live an authentic life in the face of criticism? The principles in how we do that, the strengthening of our own resolve and values... it's the same as when I was growing up. The technology, of course, changes the dynamic somewhat. Josh came up with that line about 'living from the outside in' and it was such a timeless problem. "Are you gonna leave the tribe?" That type of agony of separating ourselves from the way our peers think and finding our own truth is such a classic issue.
Josh: You can't really tell a younger person anything that's going to change the arc of their life. We just have to live forward through these stages that we go through. Adolescence is a very self-conscious stage. You don't know who you are, you're gathering your information about yourself in the reflection of other people. It's very hard to have your own compass or north star around who you want to be. And one of the mercies of getting older is you shed a lot of that and you start to figure out who you are and who you want to be with. What do you want to make? What do you love? What do you not want to be a part of? That's just a natural process. Instead of a pep talk, we're saying, "This is the process we went through." We're just thinking about where we've been, where we're going, and where we are right now. It's a classic writer thing, if you're more specific, you'll be more universal.
We'd love to hear more about this magical stew you guys ate in Brazil, what did eating feijoada laced with LSD feel like?
Ben: It had a bit of an astringent quality, kind of like how umami [savory, meaty flavor] might taste to someone who never tried it before. It's not exactly like that, but it's a flavor that maybe doesn't exist on our palate. I think that's why musically and psychologically, we were talking about a new flavor that we weren't quite familiar with. It's like experiencing a flavor you don't have a word for. I think all musicians are trying to create a flavor we don't yet have a word for, that's why music is so important. We're making a correlation that it's hard to be specific about, it's ineffable. Like, when you look at why people change, like why does this album sound different to the last? It's quite hard to articulate that, and sometimes a story can say more than an explanation could.
Where did this catchphrase of yours [Ben's] come from - "Psychedelic Jewish Cowboys Forever!"
Ben: Yeah, that's been coming more recently. It made me think of the idea that psychedelic Jewish cowboys that are temporary aren't as powerful as ones that are forever. Psychedelic Jewish cowboys, if they exist, they should definitely be craving and hopefully attaining some level of immortality. 'Cause "Psychedelic Jewish Cowboys," that just comes and goes — that's not that exciting. An immortal one, like a Viking in the clouds, that's what I'm looking for.
How did touring in non-English speaking countries like Brazil and Argentina go? Did the language barrier impact you at all?
Josh: We were invited down there because we got such a great response in Brazil to a live stream show we did, and this Brazilian promoter said, "I can put together a great tour for you guys down here." So, it was kind of a leap of faith. We didn't know how the songs would land but people were singing along. We played to 1,200 people in São Paulo, there was just a really good, fun vibe to the whole tour and it just kinda cracked us open. We'd only really been playing at smaller clubs throughout the US to small audiences, and we thought of ourselves as more suited for intimate settings. And then suddenly we're in these big rooms, with these big crowds of non-English speakers who were really loving the music. It just made us hungry for a more expansive musical palette - more layered instrumentation, more groove...it just kinda blew us open in a lot of ways, like our ideas about what Radnor & Lee could be.
Ben: Yeah, exactly, we were forced to find groove. It's interesting that this conversation seems to have a theme. When you have words, they sometimes feel like the easy way out. Because we're so dependent on them and we live under the illusion of what they communicate. And so, I think the absence of words as your fundamental communication forces you to think in new, creative ways.
Part 2 of this interview with Josh Radnor & Ben Lee will be released in June — stay tuned for more Radnor & Lee!